05-19-2019, 17:25

Author Topic: No ENGOLD for USA?  (Read 6599 times)

Offline k//eternal

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No ENGOLD for USA?
« on: 04-30-2007, 22:30 »
Apparently KOH/Betson are saying the demand for ENGOLD in America is too low for it to be worth producing (maybe related to loctest performance, but I'm not sure on that).

Is it really that hard to manufacture a few IIDX machines? Not much work needs to be done translation-wise, so that's about all there is... it should be able to market itself through word of mouth, isn't that how all Bemani games get around? Good grief.

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« Reply #1 on: 05-01-2007, 00:25 »
Wow, pathetic.

Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #2 on: 05-01-2007, 00:46 »
For serious. It might also relate to BMUS being somewhat of a flop (most buyers were already Bemani fans just looking for the cheap controller), but good god, when you try to hard to mutilate a good game, what do you expect...?

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« Reply #3 on: 05-01-2007, 02:17 »
Yeah, unless they planned similar changes for GOLD, which would then be a good thing that they decided against it, for the sake of GOLD's awesomeness.

Offline Ragnell

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« Reply #4 on: 05-01-2007, 03:15 »
Because changing it in some way because it's a different region automatically means "horrible"..

Anyway, it has nothing to do with location test performance and more to do with the fact that the only arcade in the entire country that's ordered one, it seems, is TGA. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to produce something if only one arcade is interested in it. My guess is everybody else either already has Beatmania in some form and would rather not pay for a new machine, or doesn't have enough user interest to bother (which is the case in my area).

Get serious.

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Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #5 on: 05-01-2007, 08:32 »
Well, no, it doesn't, or we'd all learn Japanese and go play the JP versions of every game we own. I don't have a problem with localization, but it's pretty clear to me that BMUS was simply a butchering. To apply that to all localizations is like pointing at a broken computer to prove that all computers suck. On the other hand, the fact that many computers don't suck doesn't mean the broken one is good, either.

If other arcades already have a IIDX machine around, then the obvious business strategy is to run an interest check for upgrade kits. Far less resource-intensive to produce, too. Isn't that how you MAKE IT MAKE MONEY?

Offline Ragnell

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« Reply #6 on: 05-01-2007, 10:32 »
It was also one hell of a lot better than it could have been. Remember Hip Hop Mania?

You forget that Konami has always taken the policy that "non-local machines don't exist," and they're likely holding Betson to that, even if it's stupid.

Get serious.

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Offline icy is a fish again

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« Reply #7 on: 05-01-2007, 11:48 »
Indeed, illegal machines don't mean interest, according to KOJ.

EDIT: Also, if KOJ needs a reason to produce 14Gold over here, see HST XD

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« Reply #8 on: 05-01-2007, 13:08 »
Seconded, icy.

Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #9 on: 05-01-2007, 13:38 »
It was also one hell of a lot better than it could have been. Remember Hip Hop Mania?

You forget that Konami has always taken the policy that "non-local machines don't exist," and they're likely holding Betson to that, even if it's stupid.
So any bad translation is totally forgivable due to the existence of Zero Wing, right?

And well, that's just what I'm saying, it's stupid. The fact that people would go to the trouble to illegaly import these machines is clear evidence of interest, and as long as there isn't a legal problem for themselves I don't see a reason to pass up a business opportunity.

Seriously, if something can sell, people in the industry don't generally care why. That's the origin of all the bad movie games around.

Offline icy is a fish again

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« Reply #10 on: 05-01-2007, 15:39 »
It's also the reason why sales statistics almost never indicate interest ;<

Offline Ragnell

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« Reply #11 on: 05-01-2007, 22:57 »
So any bad translation is totally forgivable due to the existence of Zero Wing, right?
Way to go and get that, when I never said it at all. Bad translations are never forgivable, unless there's a damn good reason something was done a certain way.

Beatmania US wasn't just translated, either, it was localized. There's a difference between the two. Yeah, the changes made in localization may not make a lot of sense to those among us who've played the original versions, but to the actual target audience -- which does not include the foreign/import, super-hardcore, elite, and/or "(region) is BETTAR!!1" crowds, which are a much smaller percentage of players in the US than they'd (we'd?) care to admit -- it makes no difference, because the target audience has probably never even heard of Beatmania before, outside of a passing reference in the information mode of a DDR game.

And while I usually agree that the industry generally doesn't care why something sells, Konami seems to think differently. Licensing issues aside, we'd probably have domestic versions of 5th Mix and the like if KOJ didn't like to pretend that our imported machines and games don't exist. Though the way they handle Bemani in general has never made a lot of sense to me.

Get serious.

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Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #12 on: 05-01-2007, 23:15 »
That was an analogy. I'm not saying BMUS is a simple translation... however, you're saying a poor localization is forgivable due to the existence of an even worse one. I totally agree a localization is necessary for IIDX, as the original material is not accessible for American audiences... however, a poor localization doesn't make things better. Thinking this localization was done well is just delusional.

Just to pull out an example, do you honestly think making the interface ugly and purple wins the game any more points with the American audience?

Offline Ragnell

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« Reply #13 on: 05-01-2007, 23:21 »
I also never said it was forgivable because a worse localization existed, I only said it could have been a whole lot worse than it was.

As for your example, maybe, maybe not. Personally, I liked BMUS' interface.

Get serious.

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Offline icy is a fish again

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« Reply #14 on: 05-02-2007, 00:36 »
It was basically 9th and 10th collision.  It is to IIDX what konamix was to DDR (interface from 4th and 5th smashup)

Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #15 on: 05-02-2007, 02:37 »
Uh, more like just 9th uglification. The concept was okay, but the execution was horrid. Recent DDR mixes have had nicely polished interfaces... to draw in the DDR crowd, they could have presented a similarly solid interface. Personally, as long as they were going the "let's hook in the DDR players" route, I would have made most of the interface a variant of DDR games rather than IIDX 9th's, and then used 9th's in-game graphics (which contained no Japanese anyway). Also, as far as scoring went, instead of the half-assed "let's bump the grades down one", I would have widened the timing windows, and instead of making [A] unlockable, had an unlockable "Expert Timing" option that was normal IIDX timing windows.

Makou, you keep going "I never said [stuff]" but I didn't say that BMUS was crappy because it was localized, per se, and as long as you keep acting like it's JP elitism that makes me dislike it, I have just as much right to stuff words in your own mouth. If you have an issue with that, then drop the hypocrisy. My beef is that it's localized BADLY, and in fact is not altered ENOUGH.

As long as I'm on the issue, the way I see it, BMUS project direction could have gone one of two ways (assuming Konami was being intelligent).

1. A straight translation of 9th, with no other changes. This would be marketed to the hardcore gamers... not just hardcore Bemani fans, mind you. The tagline would be something like "the original hit music game" and would be advertised as being tough as nails, a claim which draws tons of gamers to take on the challenge (just look at Ika, for instance... as long as you have good gameplay to back it, that hook works great). That claim would also poke hard at Guitar Hero, because it would draw attention to the fact that IIDX long preceded GH. It seems to me you're under the impression this is the only way I would have found BMUS respectable, but that's not true at all.

2. A massive overhaul, marketed to DDR players. The IIDX interface has a few key differences from DDR's, and making it more familiar would be very useful in hooking the DDR players in. Likewise, wide timing windows are something the DDR crowd is used to, so as above, "Expert Timing" could be an option. Also, options used would show on Eval; that prevents people from going "that's a BMUS grade, not a REAL IIDX one", since it's possible to have "real IIDX" timing. The rating system could just be SKY's, because that corresponds _very_ well to DDR. A rescale wasn't necessary at all and in fact made the scale correspond LESS. Basically... make the whole experience more DDR-like.

The actual BMUS is somewhere in between. That makes it half-baked on both counts, so it doesn't draw either of the above crowds effectively.

Offline Ragnell

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« Reply #16 on: 05-02-2007, 03:19 »
Aside from the short dig in my first post of the thread, I've only mentioned "JP elitism" as a group of people who seemed to be thinking the game was terrible simply because it wasn't (insert IIDX version here) and not catered to exactly what they wanted. I have not included anyone here in that group, at least not on purpose if it seems I had, because I know that's not the case.

I though I was discussing something, as well, not accusing anyone of thinking or doing anything. Oh well. I'll continue on that thought, and if people want to continue thinking I'm a hypocrite, that's their business, not mine.

I think you're right, and either of those ideas, fully executed would have made BMUS a better game overall. Whether or not either would have boosted its popularity/sales is something else, though. We could speculate about that forever, and we'll never know. I think Gradius V is the closest thing to another Ikaruga we've seen, and if I remember correctly, it didn't do all that well in terms of sales. The challenge factor could have gone either way.

Get serious.

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Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #17 on: 05-02-2007, 09:25 »
Mm, sure didn't sound that way, but alright, let's drop that because it makes people grouchy.

Konami kept the fact that Treasure developed Gradius V as quiet as possible, in order to target the oldschool crowd, not (shoot) the hardcore. That group, though certainly existent, would probably have bought the game anyway. GV certainly wasn't _marketed_ as having insane difficulty, despite the fact that it did.

All that seems to tell me is that Konami dislikes money for some reason.

Offline icy is a fish again

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« Reply #18 on: 05-02-2007, 10:56 »
Hmm, instead of speculating, let's make our own! :D

Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #19 on: 05-02-2007, 12:27 »
Our own BMUS? How? :)

Offline icy is a fish again

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« Reply #20 on: 05-02-2007, 19:23 »
We call it a "fan project" :3

Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #21 on: 05-02-2007, 20:44 »
LET'S DO IT

Uhhh... how?

Offline Ragnell

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« Reply #22 on: 05-03-2007, 01:54 »
Step 1: Somehow acquire IIDX GOLD.

Step 2: Somehow make it display "beatmania 2" and whatever else is necessary.

Step 3: ?????

Step 4: Lawsuit!

Get serious.

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Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #23 on: 05-03-2007, 03:46 »
Wahahah, great call :D

Offline icy is a fish again

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« Reply #24 on: 05-03-2007, 12:44 »
Haxxoring is the only way to make konami understand.  They wouldn't have released other DDRs were it not for andamiro cashing on something that they made.

Offline Imasock

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« Reply #25 on: 05-03-2007, 17:47 »
Apparently, for Konami, their supply will only increase after their demands have been hacked.

Offline icy is a fish again

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« Reply #26 on: 05-03-2007, 23:51 »
considering how the demand is pretty high, while the supply is 0, so they should be able to justify spending money on it, seeing how they could theoretically sell it for infinity moneys.

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« Reply #27 on: 05-10-2007, 00:13 »

Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #28 on: 05-10-2007, 00:43 »
SAUCE PLZ

Offline Imasock

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« Reply #29 on: 05-10-2007, 01:34 »
MINITOKYO'S SCAN SECTION is where I found the original, but upon scavenging, my internet pimp-esque skills have turned up the following.

I dood my research.
http://yaplog.jp/ml-blog/

I see reimu at the bottom =3
« Last Edit: 05-10-2007, 01:36 by Imasock »

Offline icy is a fish again

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« Reply #30 on: 05-10-2007, 10:28 »
hifumi => hihumi.

Btw, nice find.

Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #31 on: 10-13-2007, 15:04 »
So it's been confirmed: ENGOLD is dead. They're even going to cover up the existence of the one machine there is by sidegrading it into JP GOLD.

Offline Ragnell

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« Reply #32 on: 10-13-2007, 15:54 »
That doesn't surprise me at all, to be honest. Was any specific reason given?

Get serious.

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Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #33 on: 10-13-2007, 16:30 »
Nope, apparently not. It's just stated to be dead.

Offline Midiman

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« Reply #34 on: 10-13-2007, 20:40 »
That's what happens when you disregard a game despite it's language.


I would've liked to see DistorteD english more than anything though :V, gold would be a nice addition to the line of american arcade games

;_; woe is muah
oh hi there

Offline Ragnell

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« Reply #35 on: 10-14-2007, 02:12 »
Honestly, it's probably a good move in the long run for Konami/Betson/anyone else involved. A DDR "revival" with Supernova wasn't too much of a stretch, since a lot of arcade owners/managers at least know of arrow smash in some way, but IIDX is far less known. With the fairly sad state of arcades in the US, even if ENGOLD did happen, it probably would have been doomed to failure and only cost those involved money.

Get serious.

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Offline k//eternal

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« Reply #36 on: 10-14-2007, 02:26 »
Perhaps so... although if BMUS had been done more competently, I would have expected better results.

Offline Ragnell

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« Reply #37 on: 10-14-2007, 02:46 »
BMUS largely failed to attract the audience that wouldn't have had a clue about that, which was probably a factor in this, as well.

Get serious.

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